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These are all good arguments for why overly loud pipes don’t do enough for safety to justify the annoyance, but they do nothing to justify the ridiculous absolutism of your statement “loud pipes do NOTHING to save your life.” (Seriously, putting the word that renders your statement false in ALL CAPS just makes it sillier.)

Of course the majority of the noise goes to the rear, but anyone with driving experience knows that you can hear a loud bike coming up behind you, and sometimes that can make the difference between a narrowly avoided accident and a fatal one. So in some limited circumstances, loud pipes can mean the difference between life and death. You can argue that this happens too infrequently to justify the noise, or that there are better ways to achieve the same effect, but denying that this ever occurs is denying reality.

I appreciate a well-reasoned argument backed up with facts like this post. You’ve made a very good case that the negatives of having a noisy open exhaust system greatly outweigh the positives. If you’re capable of this, then why spout out absolutist nonsense that anyone with common sense and real-world riding experience can see is false?

I guessed I did not need to prove the obvious to you and all the other people who read this Blog…. You requested evidence, and I was happy to provide it….

For angrybob, give me something to show that being loud and annoying (an exhaust system on a motorcycle that is) saved someone’s life.

I bet you can find 10x the number of cases where a stock quiet exhaust system gave someone the edge. Just like airbags their are cases where they hurt a single person, but the save 1000’s…

you also need to consider the performance gains that many aftermaket exhaust systems provide. Those extra few horses can often make the difference between narrowly avoiding an accident and getting crushed.
That’s tongue in cheek, right ? Increasing the power output of, say, an RSV from 128hp to 132hp at 9000RPM will OFTEN make a difference in real life riding !?
Angry Bob made the case already, so I’ll just say I’m still waiting to meet an aftermarket exhaust buyer genuinely motivated by safety. ‘Loud mufflers save lives’ is one of the most embarrassing excuse ever. ‘Loud mufflers make loud noise’, period. Safety concerns are a joke.

Maybe not on an RSV, but the stock Harley exhaust sytem is so restrictive that switching to a good aftermarket system can provide power gains of over 15%, which makes a non-tongue-in-cheek real difference in acceleration.

I agree that the “loud pipes save lives” argument is a silly rationale for having loud pipes, and that the vast majority of people using it are being disingenuous about their real motivations. But this can be successfully countered without resorting to the equally silly and obviously untrue statement“loud pipes do NOTHING to save your life.”The truth is that loud pipes do make a difference, however small, in safety, and denying this just reduces your credibility.

A few quick comments (As I am traveling back from Colorado on my paragliding vacation).
1. As a safety oriented rider (This is why you put on the loud pipes, for the safety factor), why are you riding in peoples blind spots? As a safety oriented rider you should avoid blind spots, and drive through them and expect the unexpected.
2. Is a loud exhaust system the only way to get more power from your Harley? Could a free flowing intake or even a power commander improve your safety just as much?
3. Have you upgraded the performance of your HORN? I have a Hi-Lo horn pair that I installed on my ST1300 for $40 including wire and relay. Have you upgraded your horn?

I am still looking for actual “DATA” not your feelings on loud pipes help. I did research and provided evidence. Why not see if ABATE or other groups actively supporting loud pipes have research data that proves that loud pipes save lives. I showed actual information to support my OPINION, can you do the same?

Maybe I should clarify because my point doesn’t seem to be getting across. The “loud pipes save lives” argument is usually the equivalent of the guy caught with a Playboy saying “the articles are interesting.” To counter this statement with “NOTHING about the articles is interesting” is just false. Some of the articles are, in fact, interesting.

Your arguments in this post are the equivalent of proving that there are other magazines with better articles and that reading Playboy in public is likely to annoy people. Great, but it doesn’t render your earlier statement any less false.

I would never advocate reading Playboy primarily for the articles, nor would I advocate getting loud pipes primarily for safety reasons. But it is still true that the articles are sometimes interesting and loud pipes sometimes save lives. Arguing otherwise makes you look ignorant.

All of you are making the wrong primary assumption; lives can’t be SAVED, only PROLONGED. We’re all gonna die!

Sorry, I just could help but get involved in this flamefest! Give it a rest folks, nobody’s converting anyone to their side. Personally, I think you all have some valid points and some very biased OPINIONS. Welcome to being human.

Let’s talk about abortion now!

You have never split lanes with loud pipes then. It is like the parting of the seas. And if people are moving out of your way while you are splitting lanes they are aware of you and a lot less likely to hit you.

My close calls (people changing lanes into me) since moving from a “quiet” bike to a “loud” bike on my daily commute are down 70%, lives lost are even at zero. I keep a log. Here is the data so far, you decide:

301 research days on “quiet” bike - 23 close calls
148 research days on “loud” bike - 4 close calls

While loud pipes are no substitute for a competent rider, they do afford me an advantage that cannot be discounted.

if the driver of the car hitting you does not even notice you exist by eyesight then sound is not going to help you.

Nonsense. If the driver doesn’t notice you by eyesight then sound is the only thing that possibly could help you(unless you smell really bad.) And if you think that sound won’t help you, then why did you waste your money on that fancy horn?

I think people miss the fact that I feel that a loud exhaust system is not a safety device.

You’re missing the fact that no one here is arguing that it is a saftey device. We’re arguing that the effect on safety is non-zero, which is the unavoidable logical conclusion if you realize that someone who can hear you is more likely to notice you, and that someone who notices you is less likely to kill you. I don’t see how a reasonable person could deny those basic facts. In fact, you clearly recognize the truth of this, or you wouldn’t have bothered to get an aftermarket horn. Either sound helps you or it doesn’t. Which is it?

Since several people on this thread have testified to personal experience with safety gains, it becomes more and more ridiculous for you to continue to adamantly claim that there is zero effect on safety.

By the way, I’ve been taking a confrontational tone because I enjoy debate, but I wanted to say that I think you’ve got a great blog here. I’m just trying to keep you honest.

First off, I didn’t attack you or call you an idiot, I called your argument idiotic. If I thought you were an idiot I wouldn’t bother.

As I and others mentioned earlier, there is no possible way to gather data on how many accidents are avoided because of louder exhaust, because no one records an accident that didn’t happen. But proof does not require research or statistics. If the logic is sound, that’s proof, not opinion.

Of your arguments above 2 is the important one. Are you seriously arguing that someone hearing you doesn’t tell them your location and increase your safety?

To run down your points:

- A Loud exhaust system affects your ability to hear other vehicles and emergency vehicles sirens.
- Exposure to loud noise increases your fatigue factor. Fatigue affects your ability to react to dangerous situations.

These only apply to extremely loud exhausts. If we are limiting our conversation to those, I concede that you’re correct. If this was where the misunderstanding came from, we’ve been talking past each other, but many who use the “loud pipes save lives” argument are talking about moderately loud aftermarket exhaust systems.

- The majority of the danger is from the front, if the noise is a safety factor, then make sure your next exhaust system faces forward. BTW, my horns face forward.

If I were installing an exhaust system purely as a saftey measure, then I should install it facing forward. Since no one here is advocating that, it’s completely irrelevant.
But since some of the danger is to the rear, and some of the noise goes forward, your argument that there is zero benefit just isn’t supported by anything you’ve said.

- Having a loud exhaust does not make people care about you and your personal safety. I tried to point this out about how people hate noise pollution of loud stereos.

People don’t need to care, they just need to notice. I may hate the guy with the booming subwoofers, but I’m not going to accidentally switch lanes into him when he’s in my blind spot.

Let’s try this one more time. Unless you can refute one of the below, I have given proof, not opinion, that louder pipes sometimes provide increased safety.
1. When driving, it is often possible to hear bikes coming up from behind.
2. Louder bikes are easier to hear than quieter bikes.
3. Inattentive drivers sometimes switch lanes without checking their blind spot.
4. If a driver hears you, they are more likely to be aware of your presence even if you are in their blind spot.
Therefore
5. They are less likely to switch lanes into you if your pipes are louder.
Are there any factual mistakes or unjustifiable logical leaps there? Because otherwise I have proved that the safety gains are non-zero.

Again, none of this is intended as an attack on you personally. I don’t get emotionally attached to my arguments and I hope you won’t either. No disrespect to you as a person or fellow biker is intended.

Philippe, if you ever try lane-splitting with a louder bike sometime, you’ll see that the “Red Sea” phenomenon James mentioned can be pretty impressive.
Sure, if you add all sorts of conditions–heavy urban traffic, loud stereo, closed windows–then the bike has to be really loud to make a difference, but those conditions only apply to a minority of situations. No one here is arguing that a loud pipe is a foolproof safety measure.

While I can see the merit on both sides of the debate, I just had an expereince last evening along a rural WV road that convinces me of the utility of loud pipes. The road was bordered by woods starting just a few feet off the shoulder. I was on my HD Electra fitted with Vance & Hines pipes. A deer came bounding out of the woods, heading straight for a t-bone of me, my lady friend and the bike. When she heard the bike ( the deer– not the lady), she did an instant stop and u-turn and headed right back in the woods. It was all so instantaneous but I’m certain that the noise scared her and convinced her to make a u-turn. Paul

I just thought I would add this piece of anecdotal data from the Honda VTX Forum member named “breezy”.

I am starting to see more and more in Mag articles about how LOUD PIPES do nothing for safety, and only add to noise pollution .. I have loud pipes and always will and I will explain why, in a way that I have never seen posted before..

I am a “Owner/Operator” trucker driver. I HEAR a bike before I see it most of the times.. You can hide another rig in my blind spot, so it is quite easy for a motorcycle to be hidden from my view.. But those bikes with loud pipes I always hear before I see them.. This is VERY MUCH a safety thing.

Thursday night I was coming up I95 from South Carolina and was about to enter the spin-zone of the 495 loop, when a car pulled off of the shoulder right into my lane at MAYBE 15mph.. My first reaction was to swerve to the left, I didn’t see anything but because I heard that there was a bike along side me I had to lock-up the brakes and stay in the lane instead..
(And only another trucker will be able to tell you, in the split seconds you have to react, you know what is around you. )
Back to the incident…
I just missed rear-ending the car, but 2 vehicles back there was a minor 3-car accident because of all this. Plus I slid my load (3-IBeams weighing 15,000lbs a piece).. I was on the side of the road for a good hour hammering dunnage under the load to re-brace the load and re-chain it down… The people that caused all of this, just drove off like nothing ever happened, they were oblivious.

Back to my point…

My point here is, if that bike didn’t have loud exaustI may have not known he was there and swerved to avoid the car, there by putting the bikers life in a serious situation.
So don’t ever think that your loud pipes are doing nothing.. Ask a trucker.

You may choose not to believe him, but it seems to make sense.

One who is correct about the loud pipes issues and rides with a quiet legal pipe, can not argue the point with any success to someone who falsely believes that loud pipes is justified for safety sakes. The irony is that loud bike riders have placed themselves
in danger if they do believe in their own spin, because the evidence for accident prevention does not point to noise helping prevent accidents. Vision and attention prove to prevent the majority of accidents. I would point out that noise is an extreme safety issue if the subject believes in noise, and does not believe in the facts of what actually prevents accidents. The myth of loud pipes may come out of the myth that it is an American right to be overbearing on others as free spirits on a motorcycle. I believe that those that argue to have a noisy illegal bike remember that for whatever justification, remember that their opinion set into stone, may be the text placed on their headstone. Motorcycling in public is not all about the rider, ever, it is much more. Be aware!! The citizen who you just pissed off with noise, may be someone who could care less to help you, right when you need it the most.

If loud pipes do save lives, then it logically follows that quiet bikers would be getting killed more often. But they are not. The logical conclusion is that loud pipes do not save lives.

Sorry guys but with the way car manufactures are insulating their vehicles you can’t even hear sirens anymore. The only poeple that can hear your “safe” pipes are people walking, people on other two wheeled vehicles (not with loud pipes) and the nice quiet houses who’s windows you are rattling. Guess what? I am sick of the noise pollution, and to the performance gain, give me a break, just how fast do you really need to get to the posted speed limit?

Just passing through

Saying loud pipes saves lives is like saying it looks cool to be smoking a cigarette. Not subjective, not in any way provable, but I like it so therefore it must be a good thing. Can someone please explain to me how for your loud pipes to be heard that you need to be accelerating, right? On trailing throttle, the general consensous is that they are not loud at all and therefor OK? So if someone invades your right of way, the optimum way of letting them know you are in the space they want to be is to accelerate towards them? Thereby losing ground at an even greater rate? Uh-huh. Good plan, Skippy.

yeah TAKE THIS! even the cops know that loud pipes DO save lives….

“Civilians are usually the ones getting attention for loud motorcycle exhausts, but this time the San Francisco Chronicle reports that the Oakland Police Department– AKA “Rolling Thunder”– has re-installed noisy aftermarket pipes onto their fleet of Harley-Davidsons. According to the article, safety concerns spread among the department three months ago when an officer riding with stock pipes was struck by a motorist who claims he didn’t hear him coming. The new pipes produce an average of 93 decibels.

MIC spokesman Mike Mount is quoted as saying, “We encourage all motorcycle riders to keep the original low sound levels that meet the … federal sound limit of 80 decibels.” He adds that “It would seem counterintuitive that a law enforcement agency would go against federal standards.” Especially considering that recent laws have been clamping down on loud bike exhausts, the Oakland PD’s attitude seems to suggest that they are above law, or perhaps that they know something that non law-enforcement types don’t.

Are the Oakland PD’s loud aftermarket pipes justified, or is this a case of law officers taking advantage of their positions of power? Do you think loud pipes will save officer’s lives?

Photo © George Frey/Stringer/Getty Images News “

Can we just get along?