RUMOR: Harley Davidson and Ducati Merger?

Say it isn’t so.  Please.  Pretty please.  Pretty please with synthetic 5W40 on top.  Someone tell me this is all a sick joke!

Ducati would consider Harley-Davidson merger ‘anytime,’ CFO says
By Heather West in New York

Published: June 12 2007 06:44 | Last updated: June 12 2007 06:44

Ducati Motor Holding, the listed Italian motorcycle manufacturer, would consider a merger with US-based Harley-Davidson “anytime”, said Enrico D’Onofrio, CFO.

A merger with Harley-Davidson would be “totally complementary”, he said, responding to speculation in the market that the two firms had been in talks. And while he declined to comment on the speculation, he did say that the two companies are similar in that they create recreational bikes that consumers fantasize about. “People want to buy a dream.” Harley-Davidson has an older consumer profile, with an average age of 55, while Ducati owners are about 35, on average. Half of all Ducati owners in the US also own a Harley, D’Onofrio added.

A potential combination with the US company could also help Ducati with procurement, as Harley is a larger company that is able to get better quality products at lower prices. A marriage would also increase distribution opportunities for Ducati, which is a relatively small manufacturer. “In the US, we do not have critical mass,” D’Onofrio said. “In this market, you must.”

D’Onofrio said Harley could also stand to benefit, as it could be interested in expanding internationally. “The US market is flattening,” D’Onofrio said.

Asked if Harley-Davidson has ever visited Ducati’s factory in Bologna, the executive said: “Yes, we are good friends.” He said Harley visited as recently as two months ago.

Still, D’Onofrio acknowledged that some at the top of the company believe a combination with another company could dilute the Ducati brand, which dates back to the 1920s. But D’Onofrio said it is his opinion that the company could maintain its strong brand identity, even in the case of a strategic buyout.

Ducati faced difficult times in 2005 and 2006, but now has a new shareholder and is focused on reducing fixed costs and increasing margins. The company has decided to limit the number of its entry bikes, and focus on its higher-end and higher-margin motorcycles, D’Onofrio said.

Texas Pacific Group sold its 30% minus one share stake in Ducati in March 2006, after holding it from 1996, to Investindustrial, an Italian private equity firm. The company has also changed its R&D structure, focusing more on racing, and has brought in a former Toyota executive to oversee quality, D’Onofrio said.

The executive estimates that Ducati will be ready to consider a “marriage” in about one- to- three years, or once it meets its goals promised to shareholders. D’Onofrio said Ducati aims to reach EBITDA of greater than 14% and to sell 50,000 bikes per year by the end of 2008. The company is currently at about 15% EBITDA, and sold 32,000 bikes in 2006.

Also as a result of its restructuring, Ducati has reduced its debt to about 30%, and could therefore also consider acquisitions, D’Onofrio said. Ducati once considered a purchase of Moto Guzzi, which has since been acquired by Piaggio. Husqvarna could also be a potential fit, but is likely to be acquired by BMW, and is therefore not really on the market, D’Onofrio said.

He also downplayed the likelihood of another private equity buyout, explaining that after the involvement of TPG and Investindustrial, Ducati now needs to focus on its strategic outlook. “I truly think we need to find an industrial alliance,” he said.

“It’s clear the market is consolidating. The Japanese own more than 80% of the market,” D’Onofrio noted. He cited speculation regarding a Piaggio and Harley-Davidson tie-up, as well as a Piaggio and Ducati combination, which he said could both be logical scenarios. But for Ducati, D’Onofrio said: “If you ask me, the best scenario is Harley.”

Ducati has longstanding relationships with both Unicredit and Mediobanca, but D’Onofrio said Mediobanca knows the company best. Ducati is not seeking advisors in the US, but has worked with Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley in the past for private placements.

The US and Italy each generate about 25% of Ducati sales, while Germany, UK, France, Japan and the rest of the world bring in 10% each, D’Onofrio said. Investindustrial, BS Investimenti and HOPP together own about 30% of Ducati.

Ducati trades at approximately 10x EBITDA and has a market capitalization of EUR 476m (USD 640m).

Over the years, as an Aprilia owner, I have grown to like Italian engineering.  It’s sexy, its cutting edge, and its overall reliable.  These are the things for which Harley struggles.  I know, I know…I read the case studies in grad school, they are a different company than they were in the 80’s.  They now make money on sales of t-shirts and souveniers versus motorcycles, so they definitely are a different company.

Structurally, it actually makes a lot of sense.  A compant that has the dominate cruiser coupled with a company that has a dominate superrbike - both of which command premium prices.  There is very little overlap in products and demographics.  In fact, HD’s premium showrooms would benefit from having ‘upper class’ Ducatis present.

I am partial to Ducati though.  Please don’t tell any of my Aprilia forum brethren otherwise I will be shunned.  But the 916/996/998 models are the sexiest bike I have seen for production.  And while Harley make good looking cruisers, their little sister Mrs. Buell does not.  There is the overlap - excess waste call it.  It’s likely that Buell could function all on its own given their decent sales.  Should this merger happen, I would expect Buell to be fully spun off as a separate company.

What happens when you mix the Ducati crowd with the HD crowd?  Well, I think its already happened (read again the bold type above).  From the business side, it looks pretty sound.  From the enthusiast side ARE YOU GUYS INSANE???

Be afraid, be very afraid.

27 Comments

Just to show that truth is stranger than fiction: When Aprilia was in financial difficulties in 2004/2005 I joked over at apriliaforum.com that Aprilia would be sold to Harley and the next Mille RSV would have a V-Rod engine in it. I was accused of having a truly sick sense of humor (which I do).

That Ducati would entertain a merger with H-D is an even more bizzare thought. But then who thought that Lamborghini or Bentley would prosper under the ownership of Volkswagen? Next thing you know MV Agusta will be sold to the Malaysians who will sell it back to the Italians for $1.70.

Doug

Comment by Doug | June 22nd, 2007 3:13 pm | Permalink

Interestingly enough, this has been chewed up and spit back out on the Ducati lists I’m on. But, no one has even mentioned it on the Harley lists!
My main thought on the subject is: I hope they don’t try to sell Duc’s in the H-D dealerships! It is hard enough to get a salesman that knows or cares anything about the Buells (in my expererience). Could you imagine a Ducati?
I love V-Twins of all nationalities!

mcstanger

Comment by mcstanger | June 23rd, 2007 1:19 pm | Permalink

AMERICAN IRONHORSE ON THE VERGE OF GOING BANKRUPT. ALL SUPPLIER,VENDORS HAVE THEM ON C.O.D TERMS , INCLUDING S&S. VP OF MANUFACTURING RESIGNED, DOESNT LOOK GOOD

Comment by JL | July 8th, 2007 2:14 pm | Permalink

JL,

Are you pretty sure American Ironhorse is going bankrupt or you’re guessing?

Comment by JR | November 13th, 2007 12:21 am | Permalink

JL is right about American Ironhorse. Massive lay offs, skeleton crew, and a deadline set by investors, that haven’t already bailed out, to show a profit by Dec. of 2007. Ain’t gonna happen.

2005 was a record year. 2006 hundreds of employees laid off including myself. Some of the “higher ups” bailing out. Work week cut to 32 hours. According to friends still out there, it’s just about over.

Comment by LJ | November 13th, 2007 9:26 am | Permalink

As for Ironhorse…what does that mean for customers that currently have loans on their cycles?

Comment by MEC | January 6th, 2008 8:33 am | Permalink

I have heard this same rumor since they opened their doors. When employees do not pull their weight, and are let loose these blogs are filled with hurtful information. I love reading who is unfulfilled, when a company is building for the future and they are not part of it.

Comment by JL | January 8th, 2008 3:42 pm | Permalink

This is not a rumor. Textron financial is currently paying salaries, the company has no cash, it has stiffed every vendor and dealer it has ever associated itself with, and not one talented member of the crew is left.

The V.P. over manufacturing, who helped create this mess by failing to build the bikes that were ordered by the dealers and ordering that bikes known to be defective to be shipped anyway, has hauled ass back to Georgia.

The V.P. of “Design” who was responsible for slapping a slammer fender onto the back of an outlaw and calling it gold (as well as the nice cruising speed wobble) obviously spends more time kissing ass to keep his job than trying to come up with a design of his own (not just mixing up the designs of Tim Edmundson and others and calling it his own).

The CEO (considered to be mildly retarded by most), who decided that the 07 Slammer (the last truly great motorcycle from this company) was not what the company needed, halted the R&D of the Bagger Chopper, built a 200mm chopper when the market wont carry a 240mm, started bolting the cheapest components that money can buy on 30+ thousand dollar motorcycles, and decided that Made to Order manufacturing of motorcycles required no production control, skilled laborers, material planning, engineering, etc., and, who managed to let his friend (hired to run the purchasing department) embezzle money by credit card and get away with it, is still there. Although the pictures from the Vegas trip with the hookers at the Bellagio Hotel are quite breath taking, I’m not sure that the share holders would have approved the trip up front.

The “rumor” is that Textron is shopping the company’s debt portfolio to interested buyers. The problem here is that the only remaining piece of the company that is worth anything at all is the trademark.

Comment by DOM | January 13th, 2008 10:29 am | Permalink

P.S. the company just had ANOTHER layoff this past week. Letting go of the production manager, most of whats left of engineering, and a salesman (the one who’s not dating the CEO’s daughter).

Comment by DOM | January 13th, 2008 9:14 pm | Permalink

WELL PUT DOM..I’M ONE OF THOSE VENDORS AIH SCREWED..AND LETS JUST SAY THEY RAW DOGGED ME..CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHERE THEY FIND THERE BUYERS ? WHAT A BUNCH OF IDIOTS..THEY WERE’NT SO BAD YEARS BACK ACTUALLY KNEW THE INDUSTRY AND WERE HONEST..NOW A DAYS THEY HIRE A MONKEY AND CALL HIM/HER A BUYER

Comment by BL | January 15th, 2008 4:59 pm | Permalink

These are some great posts guys! I work for IronHorse and can tell you that most of what has been posted here is true.

DOM, it’s an old Slammer with an Outlaw fender that Jeff “created”, not the other way around. Your pretty much right on about everything else though.
By the way, the “mildly” (I think you were being nice.) retarded CEO and his little band of morons are aware of your post. They were scurrying about last week trying to find out who all of these posters are. You could tell Buck was about to piss his pants. I do hope that the investors who’ve lost all of their hard earned money to this bastard, go after him. He belongs in jail for what he and Bob have done to this company. There’s no way he could get out of the thing with his little buddy that stole from the company. Everybody in the company knows about it and the pictures of the hookers at the Bellagio mentioned above are all over the place. Everybody has copies.

For the past year and a half we’ve been dropping bikes knowing they’re not right and saying that warranty would catch them when the dealer notices the defects on their floor. Of course this is never the case, one customer after another gets his expensive new toy to the house only to find out that it won’t go more than 200 miles before major repairs are needed.
We are no longer a made to order shop, we just slap whatever together an ship it. I don’t know how the CEO and his lackeys sleep at night knowing they’re ripping everybody off with this cheap crap.
I remember when we built a bike as good as was possible, using the best of every possible component on the market and every single worker in the plant was in love with his job. Now we bolt the cheapest dog turds we can find onto it knowing that soon, some poor bastard will go into debt to buy this thing to fulfill his dream of owning an IronHorse, completely unaware that IronHorse died some time ago. It’ll start leaving him stranded on the side of the road on a weekly basis and he’ll have to start dealing with our warranty guy, who’ll give him the runaround and just try to keep it from going lemon law.

The latest from the inside is this. The company is about to file bankruptcy. Managers have begun telling employees to get new jobs and have been handing out information on how to file for unemployment. I don’t think we’ll be open into February.
Everybody is scrambling for jobs, but I think I’m gonna take some time off after this. We had a great run for several years, but suffering the humiliating downfall of this once great company has taken the wind out of my sails. For the first time, I’m thinking about leaving the motorcycle industry forever.

Comment by LMAO | January 26th, 2008 12:40 pm | Permalink

As for the comments of DOM, BL & LMAO… you are all obviously clueless cowards. To run your mouth under anonymous names or initials is typical of losers that couldn’t make the cut. To say that Tim & Bill were the heroes and that “every single worker in the plant was in love with his job.” shows your ignorance. Bill stole hundreds of thousands of dollars, was fired and forced to pay back over 300K, I fired him, so I know. Tim simply didn’t know how to build a bike that anyone could make money on… neither of them have ever been successful in any business and never will be. “Loving your job” is not what business is about… if it was they wouldn’t call it work, it would be called “recess” or “play time”, maybe you kids can better understand those terms. If you got laid off, it was because your value to the company was less than your cost, plain and simple. The current CEO, and what is left of his staff, will all be part of a grand restructuring that will make you all eat your words… again I know as I have millions on the table and am closer than any of you to what is really happening. So sit back, collect your unemployment checks, watch Oprah every day and let the real men finish the game. The reason AIH is in financial trouble, like every other manufacturer in the custom segment, is because you idiots thought it was about being cool and having fun… or “loving your job…”, it’s not! It’s about making a product and selling it for more than it costs to make, what a concept!
My name is Charle Strand… I’ve been part of AIH sinse it’s beginning and am now their top Dealer. If you cowards would like to discuss this in person, you know where I am, I don’t hide behind aliases or initials…

P.S. Lose the pony tail Sam, it shows your gayness!

The company is better off without you fools… the industry and AIH will survive just fine without you.

Comment by Charles Strand | January 27th, 2008 9:54 pm | Permalink

Hey guys, you’ve been noticed. This thread is at the top of the google searcher bar and there is even another thread on this blog about your comments.

http://motorcyclebloggers.com/2008/01/27/american-iron-horse-battle-ro yale-here/#more-1015

We should totally do a cage match!

Comment by Tom | January 28th, 2008 7:58 pm | Permalink

wow truth hurts huh charles..geez…Go gettum ..go build some more bikes you cant sell..you cocky bastard…by the way # 1 dealer of AIH isnt much to brag about these days..if you were the #1 big dog dealer now thats impressive..see ya buddy,I still work here if thats what you want to call it.

Ironhorse peon

Comment by CHARLES STRAND # 1 PEON | January 29th, 2008 4:31 pm | Permalink

Charles, way to go! Not one ounce of gratitude for any of the dedicated workers who actually made the company what is was. Sure, none of them were “real men” like you, but they could actually turn a wrench and they alone made sure that the job got done right because they believed in the product and, yes they loved their jobs.
Now that they are all gone, who will take care of that for you? The officers of the company who demand quarter million dollar salaries in spite of the fact that they know nothing about motorcycles, or business for that matter? The multitude of unqualified managers who work for the officers? How about the beaten down few who are left at the bottom and are simply waiting to draw unemployment when it all comes down. The guy on the other page got it right. The employees didn’t run the company into the ground, the management, and ultimately the owners did. The line workers did everything they could to make the company number 1, they just kept getting their feet kicked out from under them by management’s lack of ability. As for your comment about Tim above, he’s a designer, he’s not supposed to know how to build a bike that you can make money on. That’s the job of the engineering and manufacturing teams. Maybe you could take some classes up at the junior college.

Comment by Randal | January 29th, 2008 6:45 pm | Permalink

John F. Kennedy once had dream of reaching to the stars and putting a man on the moon. And we did it as united Americans. Bill Rucker and Tim Edmondson once had a dream of building a special custom motorcycle and we did it as a team, without them we would not be talking today. I have been watching the hatred, character assignations and anger in theses blogs and it serves no purpose but to finger point and tear someone down. The bible says”By the measure you judge, so you shall be judged when it is your turn”.
The current CEO Buck is very intelligent and doing the best job he can with the tools given to him. Jeff is a great designer, with untapped potential and talent. The previous VP in Georgia is a great man who respects God, his family and co-workers. Charles Strand has done an excellent job of selling bikes.
Did the Space Program have mistakes and miscues along the way, sure it did and learned from those mistakes and put a man on the moon. Has AIH made mistakes and miscues, sure it did. Did AIH have many successes, sure it did. Have all the men in these blogs made mistakes, sure and they have learned from them. Can any of us really cast stones and claim to be perfect, no. Only Jesus Christ can claim to be a perfect man.
We have had a good run at AIH and have much to be thankful for. It is not about how much money we have, who has the most toys or the biggest bragging rights. It is all about our daily walk in life and how we treat each other along the way. There is too much anger, hatred and violence in the world we live in today. One of the greatest commandments in The Good Book says “we must love one another”. How hard that truly is. I am sure I know most of you in these blogs and have a lot of respect for you. I am proud to have worked with you and been associated with you. If we must find other jobs, so be it. We must ALL respect each other, forgive each other and move on. Hateful words and dissention will only tear us apart. I choose to rise above all of this and joyfully look forward to seeing all of you at the pearly gates one day.
Remember this, if AIH goes down, not only will employees loose jobs and benefits, but venders and all those who have supported AIH will be hurt too. Many families will be affected. So it is in everyone’s best interest to build each other up instead of tearing each other down, finger pointing and wondering “what if”. I choose to have a positive attitude, take what I have learned and shoot for the moon again!
Respectfully
Stephen K. Adams

Comment by Stephen K. Adams | January 30th, 2008 5:29 am | Permalink

Well said Stephen

Comment by Anonymous | January 30th, 2008 10:11 am | Permalink

Agreed and well said Steve… hopefully it will all work out soon, I strongly believe that it will. There is nothing we can do about what has happened in the past, I just hope people will stop wishing bad things on AIH for the furture as it serves no one. A lot of mistakes were made by a lot of people, hopefully the ones that are left can learn from it and recreate the company we all dreamed it to be.

Charles Strand

Comment by Anonymous | January 30th, 2008 12:47 pm | Permalink

Also, for IronHorse Peon… We, Iron Horse Of Texas, sold 161 AIH Bikes for 2007… more than any dealer in the history of AIH ever did, even in the glory days… and more than the top Big Dog dealer sold last year. We have been offered the Big Dog franchise and it would likely be the smart move for us at this point, but we are committed to work with AIH and get it back on solid ground, and will. Big Dog, nor anyone else would benefit from AIH failing as it would give the whole industry a black eye.

What a bunch of cowards to keep making smart ass comments and use aliases to do so. If you believe what you are saying, be a man as say it as you instead of some fairytale character… or shut the F up!

Comment by Anonymous | January 30th, 2008 12:56 pm | Permalink

Forgot to sign my last comment… don’t want to be in with the group of cowards hiding who they are so they can talk tough without being accountable… also agree that a cage match would be great… wanna play “peon”?

As for Randal, the gratitude for the “dedicated workers” was that they got paid! Every AIH employee signed an agreement when they started that said they were an “At will employee”, meaning that getting paid is all you are entitled to unless otherwise agreed. If you want to feel sorry for someone, feel for the investors and vendors that all get screwed.

Charles Strand

Comment by Charles Strand | January 30th, 2008 1:08 pm | Permalink

Everyone here knows me and I am pretty sure I know everyone here.
A wise old man (and an AIH dealer) once told me; “Its just building motorcycles. Blood, sweat, tears, heart and soul…. It is just building motorcycles.”

Stop slinging mud and get back to the basics… BUILDING MOTORCYCLES and being part of a lifestyle…..

Charles have Buck call me, I would love to come back and represent AIH again.
—- an ex-employee who cared

Comment by It Does not Matter | January 30th, 2008 6:33 pm | Permalink

Hey, “It Does not Matter”, is that you Dave Marshall?

Comment by Does it really not matter? | January 31st, 2008 4:46 pm | Permalink

Stephen, stop using my name in vain.

God

Comment by God | January 31st, 2008 5:11 pm | Permalink

Its a nice touch of someone adding my old work email address so when you pull up the first JL is says it. This is the first time i have ever seen this website. And further more i had to leave AIH due to me and my family moving to plano, and me needing to make more money instead of ends meat. I loved working there and most of the people knew that. Just got tired of fighting for parts then having to fight with accounting for money for the parts. It got old after a year and a half of it. Plus i am linked to AIH in my line of work and I would never wish bad upon that place due to my father was working there plus a lot of close friends. SO whoever the pussy JL is can kiss my ass for making it look like it was me. If you hated working there so much then why didnt you quit. To lazy to go out and try and get a paycheck from someone else, or to good at sucking someones dick to keep you around so you didnt have to worry about it. I wish the best of luck to the company and to the dealers.

Sean Stutzman
Ex employee but AIH supporter for life

Comment by Sean Stutzman | January 31st, 2008 5:15 pm | Permalink

JL, stop using my name in vain.

Sean Stutzman

Comment by Sean Stutzman | January 31st, 2008 6:33 pm | Permalink

Sorry to hear about the trouble at AIH. The bikes were the stuff legends were made of.
My grandfather rode Harleys. My father rode Harleys, I rode Harleys.
Guess if the company folds, it will be back to building my own bike from scratch.
At least there will be enough people freelancing That it won’t be impossible (I already found someone to make the frame)
Oh well on to new rides!
Really though, hope ya’ll get it back together full steam ahead!
Todd

Comment by LA Headshot Photography | February 1st, 2008 10:37 pm | Permalink

Yes…this one is closed too.

Comment by angrybob | February 1st, 2008 10:58 pm | Permalink

Powered by WordPress 2.3.1    Rendered in 15 queries and 1.168 seconds.    CleanBreeze Theme   
   

Bad Behavior has blocked 1202 access attempts in the last 7 days.