Fighting a Traffic Ticket - Arizona

Today I got a lesson in civics.  In short, the lesson was if you reside in Arizona and get a traffic ticket that offers the defensive driving school option, take it.  In the end, no matter how much the ‘prosecuting’ officer’s story changes, no matter what documentation you bring, and no matter what A-game you bring to defend yourself…it simply doesn’t matter.  You are presumed guilty and need to prove your innocence beyond an unreasonable doubt.

This is odd for me because I am not a cop hater.  In general, I think they have a thankless job and perform a selfless service to our states, counties, and cities.  This does not include the cops whose purpose is to generate revenue by issuing petty traffic violations.  Although there are exceptions and bad people are discovered by traffic stops, they are not keeping the streets safe.  I have the opinion that until all murders, rapes, assaults, and identity thefts have been solved, there should not be an available officer to issue a five-over ticket.

Back in early November, Three of us set out for a two-wheeled Arizona two-day tour.  About two hours away from home, we were stopped and ticketed by Arizona’s finest for passing in a no passing zone.  A civilian stopped where this officer was to complain about (us) motorcycle passing vehicles too fast and in no passing zones (more on this later).  

I found this ticket thing bothersome for two reasons:

  1. The officer issuing the ticket ( officer Gamboa in the Superior-Kearny District ) never witnessed any passing, but rather “counted cars”.  He stated that there were more cars when we passed him than there was when a second officer flagged us over some two miles away (much more on this later).
  2. The officer’s quote while handing us the ticket: “Don’t even think of challenging this ticket.  If you do I’ll up it (the ticket) to criminal reckless, you’ll lose your license, and possibly go to jail.”  Nice.  Oh yeah, I did file a complaint with DPS due to his threat and conduct.

I knew going into today’s hearing that it would be difficult to win given that his word versus mine is a loser for me.  I to both show confidence in my story and blow holes in his version.  I did both, yet Justice of the Peace Larry A. Bravo (Superior/Kearny Precinct #6) was not impressed.  His fecklessness towards the terrible case that officer Gamboa presented shows either a coward in his fear of actually siding with a civilian or a purposeful complacency towards the ‘good ole boys club’ of officer/judge CYA.

The way this worked is the officer would tell his side, I would get to question him, I would tell my side, and then he would get to question me.

I caught officer Gamboa in many inconsistencies throughout this hearing, challenging each one as they occurred.

Example #1:
In his side of the story, he stated that the reason we were ticketed was that he counted cars.  There were “a bunch” of cars ahead of us and that by the time we had gotten to the other officer 2.2 miles away, that we were in front of the pack…the all important part also being that there was no passing areas between the two points.  I gladly corrected him by stating that there was three vehicles in front of me when I passed the officer and still one, a white pickup truck (details, details) in front of me when I reached the second officer…but who’s counting.  I also corrected him by showing photos of the passing zone located 0.2 miles from where he was parked.  Thank you google satelite maps.  His response:

“Yeah, I knew that.  Ummm.  Ummm, I meant after that one…ummm because I watched you in my rear view mirror to see if you passed in that zone.  You did not pass anyone there so you must have passed someone elsewhere.”

NOTE:  My argument was that I did pass between the two points, but legally in that specific passing zone.

I looked at the judge with the WTF? look on my face and my hands extended outward in that ‘I don’t know’ position with shrugged shoulders.  I didn’t actually say WTF out loud, but I assure you that the judge read the thought bubble over my head.  I thought for sure this amateur of a liar would be called on the carpet.  NOPE.

Example #2
In his side of the story, officer Gamboa stated that he could not pursue us immediately because there was too much traffing and he had to wait for it to clear behind us.  Later, I made the point that it was not possible for him to see if I passed or didn’t pass with all the traffic he claimed there was behind me.  Specifically, that all that traffic between me on a motorcycle and him in his car through his magic zoom lens rear view mirror would obstruct his sight path.  Never mind that there was an elevation change that I cited that made the passing zone impossible to see (there was a small hill crest - a high point if you will - between the officer’s position and the passing zone). 

This got an eyebrow raise and a strange look at the officer.  “Do you understand what the defendant is saying?”, the judge asked to officer Gamboa.  Gamboa’s response was not “not really”.  Fortunately, I thought, the judge explained it correctly and I thought that this was applying logic and common sense to my side of the story, and what better person to explain/understand it than the judge.

Officer Gamboa’s response: “Oh…I see…well…actually there were no cars behind the defendant your Honor”. 

Immediately, I stated what he had previously said about it being too dangerous to enter the highway due to all the traffic.  I actually had the same WTF? gestures and let out “WHAT?”.  The “TF” was thankfully silent.  Again, I look towards the judge for some sanity to backhand a terrible liar.  I remember thinking “there is no way he is going to buy into this shit…no way”.

The judges response: ”Ah, so there were no cars behind him.  OK.”

I was awarded a blank stare from the judge when I repeated myself about the previous claim.

There were several more of these examples that I can cite, but I am sure you get the point.  The bottom line is that we had a citizen complain about our riding habits.  I should have recognized that this was the most compelling piece of evidence that either of us brought to the table.  Once I realized that I had lost this hearing, about ten minutes into the forty minute session, I added another angle:

“We were ticketed not for what officer Gamboa observed, but rather for what he thinks we deserved based on the complaint”  I thought this would send a signal to the judge that I wasn’t going to fight this out in its entirety.  Legally, its about the actual occurrence, and that actual occurrence has to be witnessed by the ticketing officer for a civil infraction.  A felony is a different story, where witness accounts can lead to arrests.

I even went down the way of logic stating that I could have easily gone down the traffic school path, not taken a day off work, not drive 250 miles round trip, and not have this on my record.  I haven’t had a ticket in over ten years.  My reasoning was that I was confident that I did nothing wrong, and I had evidence and an honest non-wavering story.

I handed officer Gamboa his ass to any objective audience.  His story changed each time I cited an inconsistency, and was willingly accepted by this kangaroo court in Precinct #6.  I think that’s why I’m pissed the most - I lost to a terrible liar, an amateur.  If I’m going to lose, I want to at least lose by some talented liar…where I’m left thinking “whew - that guy was good.”  But alas, I lost to the collusion of an incompetent officer Gamboa with an indifferent Justice of the Peace Larry A. Bravo.  The decision went like this “The officer said you did it so I find you responsible for the ticket”.

After he found me “responsible” for the action (that would be the PC way of “guilty”), I had to approach the bench and sign some paperwork.  Still pissed, I laid into the judge a little bit keeping a possible contempt of court fine in the back of my mind.  I said to the judge “I didn’t have a chance did I?”, “This was a total waste of time wasn’t it?”, “Independent of my innocence, I should have just swallowed it and taken the traffic school?”.

After that, he said to me with a shit-eating grin “I gave you a last chance to take the school”.  Bastard.  He did actually, and I missed his signal.  The very first thing he stated when we sat down was that I have a last chance to omit this hearing and go to traffic school, and questioned if I really understood what I was entering.  I understand very well now.  That was his way of saying “Shut The F&*K Up”, don’t waste my time, go to traffic school like an obedient citizen, and pay the fine.

At least I didn’t get contempt of court.  Yay.

As I exited the courtroom, I said to my buddy who was also ticketed (heh - next on the docket), “I never had a chance…good f’ing luck”.  At the instant he entered the courtroom, the lightbulb went off.  As the door was about four inches from closing, I yelled “TAKE THE TRAFFIC SCHOOL!”  I had no idea if he heard me, but I wasn’t going to push it beyond that. 

He didn’t hear me.  He lost.  He had the very same disgusted + WTF just happened look on his face.  He said “it didn’t matter wht I said…I even established his timeline of events and it just wasn’t possible, but still didn’t matter.”  The part that disappoints me the most is the allowed inconsistency of the SAME officer Gamboa’s side of the story to the judge.  You know…that part where he present his side of the case.  It would take too long to explain the details, but I asked my buddy “did he know that we were riding together?”  The response was yes, where the judge even asked “you were riding with the previous defendant…”  A totally different reason was given for the same passing in a no passing zone.  Idiots.

Actually, I have learned that I am the idiot for thinking that principles matter over the easy way out.  States design this option in to keep the courtrooms clean of traffic ticket challenges.  Point taken.  I will state again that if you read this in doing research for how to fight a ticket, and have the traffic school option - TAKE IT.  Without a scum-sucking costly trial lawyer, you will lose.  Bring one and its a battle of the liars.  If you choose to fight the ticket versus traffic school, I will gladly annoint my dunce cap to you.  You will lose.

As an optimist, these are not the normal words I am used to knocking out.  I love Arizona and I respect the rule of law.  But damn, I should be able to use those same laws to defend my innocence.  Obviously in some courts, that simply is not possible.  We were guilty and needed to prove ourselves innocent.  I brought my A-game and am proud of the way I defended myself (proud in the sense that I did all I could), but I’m sure I’ll be kicking myself over the next few days on what I cold have done better.  I’m not proud of the system out in Superior-Kearny.  Not because I lost, but because of how I lost.

EDIT - 3Jan2008
Yeah, the above is still on my mind about what I could have done different, etc. etc.  But I wanted to explain a little further about the complaint about our riding from a local citizen.  US60 is a 2 lane highway between Globe and Superior with passing lanes and passing zones.  From the best of my recollection, we used both of those to the fullest extent.  While I don’t specifically remember passing in a double yellow throughout that whole section, it could have happened.  My guess is that she was not comfortable with the overtaking we did within the passing zones.  Over the years, I’ve found that people who do not ride motorcycles do not understand the reduced distance that a pass on a motorcycle requires.  And if they cannot make it in a car (in our distance), then we should not be passing either.  Just not true.  In addition, I have an aftermarket exhaust (Aprilia 1000cc twin) and its always possible that if & when I passed her that the noise startled her.  Even though the baffles are in, when I’m on the gas it sings a sweet, sweet song which others may not enjoy.

10 Comments

Bob, That whole area of US60 up that way and the back road to Roosevelt Lake are heavily patrolled. I was blitzing through there on my Concours some years ago and got caught up in slow traffic. As I came around a curve, still in traffic, I spied a Ducati rider in full leathers…complete with fresh handcuffs, standing next to a patrol car. I took it as some sort of omen and cooled it for the rest of the ride.

I can only recall one friend who ever beat a ticket in court and he paid for an attorney who made the cop look really foolish for not having his facts straight. After the case was dismissed the cop walked out of the courthouse and as he passed my friend he said very pointedly “I’ll see you on the road.”

You didn’t win your case but I’d still for a while avoid US60 up in the area where you got busted. Even if you did lose your case the cop probably would love to ding you a second time just for making him look foolish in court.

And I’d like to take this opportunity to publicly thank Office J for giving me a warning for “20 over” when he stopped me last year. Sometimes it pays to look like a harmless old guy who just slipped up for a moment. ;-)

Doug

Comment by Doug | January 3rd, 2008 9:18 pm | Permalink

Yessir, I will be avoiding the area for sure. As time passes, I’m a little pissed that I didn’t, in fact, take the easy road. Those damn principles get you every time…

Comment by angrybob | January 4th, 2008 8:27 pm | Permalink

AB,

Since you did not mention what happend at the office, I will suggest it online. I would contact the Clerk of the court you were at to see if they have a form for an Appeal of your case.

In the form for an Appeal you should give your reasons to why you are requesting a review by the next court of jurisdiction. I believe you have detailed this information clearly on your blog and you should be able to write that out in bullet points, stating that you feel the officer does not have a “Clear Reelection” of the events. I think the big point you did by shrugging your shoulders is you failed to request the judge dismiss the ticket because the officer does not clearly remember the facts. The example of the officer stating there were 3 cars between you and him, then later reversing his statements. This should have been followed by a request to the judge that the officers memory is not clear on the subject. The citation is not final judgment and the accuser (police officer) needs to remember the situation. Since the officer is using his recollection to determine that you did not pass in the one passing zone, he must have clear recollection of all aspects of the case.
With this pointed out you should request the higher court to vacate the judgment due to the lack of evidence against you. The transcripts (Tape recording) of the case will prove that point out.
Don’t give up without a fight. You have 14days or so to appeal this decision. The appeal can occur all in writing and though letters sent to the court. I would get the recording ASAP, point out the errors in the officers memory. Then I would clearly request the judgment be vacated because THE OFFICERS MEMORY IS NOT CLEAR on this.
My guess is, if a lawyer had been their, this request would have been made to the judge. Since you did not clearly object to the testimony of the officer and being without clear understanding and request the officers statements to be VACATED from evidence, the judge let it stand.
All is not lost and an request of Appeal is in order. The local DA should need to file paperwork on why the judgment should stand. At times the local DA does not want to file the paperwork and “In the interest of Justice” vacates the judgment.

Comment by gothicbeaST | January 4th, 2008 10:10 pm | Permalink

Sadly, many incidents like this have left me with the incontravertable conclusion that no matter what country you live in, if you’re a motorcyclist, the police and law assume you’re guilty. For that, I’ve lost all respect for them, irrespective of what an awful they have. My last ounce of respect vanished some years ago when I still lived in England. A woman in a rusty red four door sedan sideswiped me on a roundabout over the M25 motorway. She hit me so hard that my left knee is still screwed up to this day. I dented the panels on her front fender and was briefly half-on my bike and half-on the hood of her car. I’m not sure how but we separated and the bike stood up and straight-lined me without crashing. She took off on to the motorway and left the scene of the accident. The impact had been big enough to jolt one of her numberplates off so I recovered it from the road and went to the nearest police station. Despite having her numberplate in my hand, despite the red paint transfer to my riding pants, despite the hideous bruises coming up and the pronounced limp, the police said to me “We don’t have the time to look into accidents like this, and even if we could find her, it would be your word against hers.” He went on to point out that technically the woman in the car could prosecute me for criminal damage because I had her numberplate and had the tenacity to dent her car when she drove into me.
At that point I threw the numberplate at the on-duty desk officer and told him where to shove it. From that day forwards, I’ve had zero respect for the police.
I know the old adage about ‘one bad apple’ but honestly, I really believe that when it comes to trying to defend anything from a motorcyclist’s point of view, all police officers are bad apples.
I’m sorry you fought the ticket and lost. Rhino has told me all about it. Sad thing is that you managed to prove beyond reasonable doubt that your officer was a liar, and that he ticketed you for something he could not and did not witness, and the court still went against you. If you’d done the same thing in a car, I bet you’d have won the fight and got off without so much as a warning. In fact I doubt you’d have even received the ticket in the first place.

Comment by Triumph Tiger Kid | January 9th, 2008 12:34 pm | Permalink

Thanks for this post… I currently have two tickets:
- 47 in a 35 zone
- Illegal red turn on red.

I have to choose which of the two I can do defensive driving for. Of course, I should pick the 2nd one, since if I decide to pay the fine for the 2nd one, they’ll make me take driving survival as well. But for the 2nd one, I still have a court date where I have the chance to fight my case. But after this post, I’m not even gonna try. I have no case, I made a right turn on red - and there’s definitely a sign that says “no turn on red”. I’ve read that begging in court may work… but maybe this isn’t the best idea.

So after reading your entry, I think I will just bite the bullet and take defensive driving for the red light and pay the speeding ticket and eat three points. I guess I won’t win in AZ traffic court.

Comment by David | January 10th, 2008 1:20 pm | Permalink

The only way to have a chance at fighting a ticket these days is to have a lawyer. (The only other ticket I got out of, was when the officer didn’t show up). Of course then you pay through the nose, but with legal counsel, you at least have a chance.

The courts don’t respect individual citizens, it almost as if you have to “pay to play” (hire a lawyer or we don’t believe a thing you say). Since it costs a pretty penny to hire a lawyer (Usually, at least $1000), I wouldn’t recommend getting one unless it was a very serious charge.

And don’t ever forget, it’s always about revenue generation!

I took the driving school option because I was out-of-state and there was no way I was making a trip to fight this one, even though I believe I wasn’t in the wrong (legally). It cost less than the fine ($90 vs $140). The points were waived. And I actually learned some interesting things taking the course (don’t underestimate the values of this last one, none of us knows it all!).

One last comment I’ll make. We all violate traffic laws from time to time and don’t get caught. What keeps me from getting too worked up about getting popped once in awhile, is to look at it like a fun tax. You been having way too much fun, so it’s time to pay the ride attendant. When you get really upset, it only hurts you and those closest to you. It doesn’t bother the cops or the courts one bit.

Rhino

Comment by Anonymous | January 14th, 2008 11:19 am | Permalink

had an incident in a small central arizona town a few years ago. I got frustrated when cop seemed to be making up charges. I told him I did not have to put up with his nonsense and took off. they eventually flattened my front tire, I got out to change the tire and was tackled, taken to first the town’s police station then to the county jail. had to spend 30 days in the county jail and then 2 years probation.. all for challanging a barney fife type who should never been given a badge

Comment by ja moran | February 26th, 2008 6:16 am | Permalink

So, how about those “beat the speeding ticket” info they are selling over the Internet? Are they all bogus or useless?
I do have a speeding ticket, no radar or laser but a mere ‘pacing’ was the method. The unmarked police car (ugly black truck) didn’t even have the sight of my vehicle, and I only did increase my speed for a few seconds to be able to cut to the left turn lane so I really was not speeding in th true sense. I even told the same thing to the officer who ugly black F-150 I recollected seeing only a 100 feet or so behind me on the next lane for over a mile so he knew that I was travelling at an acceptable speed along the way and then for a few seconds I went up a bit more to pass a white commercial truck (that shouldn’t have been in the far left lane to begin with)and be able to cut to the left turn lane. The unmarked police truck was behind that white truck. I increased speed briefly and cut in front of the truck then one more lane to the left turn lane, the duration of the speed increase was no more than 4-5 seconds tops. After a few seconds later I noticed the same truck with ugly black paint, come flying through and he must have barely saw me on the left and realized I really wasn’t speeding but trying to make it to the turn lane, he cut in front of the white truck like a maniac and came right behind me in a way that freaked me out. When I noticed the way that vehicle came around, I was thinking “What’s this guy’s problem?”. Little that I knew, seconds after finding the opening in traffic and making my left turn into the shopping center the hidden lights in the grill start flashing followed by the siren. Unmarked police cars have only one simple purpose imho, to give tickets, nothing else. If they really cared about giving a warning, they’d be driving regular patrol cars. ‘To server and protect’? My left nut! They are Maricopa County Deputies, one female and one male (they both looked male to me), I was polite, direct and honest. After the usual semi-retarded questions and statements of me speeding, I tried reasoning and even explained what I was doing (as I did above). He took my stuff went to his car and 15 minutes later, he came back saying he was giving me a break by writing 60 in a 45, instead of my presumed speed of 65 which would have been ‘criminal’. I doubt I even hit 60, he was the one driving like a maniac trying to catch up and he neither got me on a radar nor on laser, he didn’t even have me in his sight and the whole thing took less than 5 seconds yet he was able to ‘pace’! Hah, what a joke…my court date is April 21. Traffic school or Fight this BS ticket?

Comment by Turcoloco | April 11th, 2008 6:27 pm | Permalink

My brutha, you will lose IMO. Its your word versus his…and why would an officer of the law lie?

If you do not have a ticket already, go to traffic school. Do it or pay some jackass trial lawyer a ton of cash.

Comment by angrybob | April 11th, 2008 7:50 pm | Permalink

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Comment by Fight And Beat Your Speeding Ticket. | 7Wins.eu | June 20th, 2008 3:50 pm | Permalink

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